I know, I know, it's a tin can. But hey, It's all I have right now. It was cheap. It has no leaks. It's not all oil canned. And, it came with a Grumman sail kit - complete. I know alot about canoes. Been paddlin' for years. But, I don't know diddly squat about trying to sail a long 2x4 on edge. This sail: It's not a lateen. I'm not sure what it is. It's exceptionally tall and has both a boom and spar that gooseneck at the mast. I think it's a Gunter. The spar hauls all the way up until it's nearly vertical against the mast, but goes another 5' higher.

My question: Does anyone have a recommendation for finding info on this setup. There's nothing online that I've been able to find except for very vague referencees to "other" rigs made by Grumman.

Thanks,
John

Hi John, yes it's Gunter Rig. A very good type of rig for small crafts. The difference between Gunter and Bermudan is that Bermudan has a single long mast while Gunter has 2 sections mast.

More info here. http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/04/s/articles/gunter/index.cfm

And if you want plans, Todd Bradshaw's book: Canoe rig, the Essence and the Art, is surely the best book to buy, available by clicking on the link at the bottom of the HOME page
Ed might have more to say.

Your canoe is ok. Aluminum,fiberglass, ABS, or wood, all of them may bring lots of fun to it's owner. It's a question of taste!!!

Happy to bring some help.

Thank you, Sargon. I've had an assortment of canoes throughout the years. Just about everything but a Coleman. No knock on Coleman - I see lots of happy people in them. I used to paddle cross several miles of Puget Sound off Seattle and Everett in a 17' Grumman. Me and a buddy experienced a 6' breaking freighter wake - three of them to be more accurate. That Grumman was as dry as a popcorn fart with the full entry taking us up and over. A bit of the comb came in but nothing to be in a panic over. I say that now, but at the time I think we were both screaming for our mothers. Much hysterical laughter followed. I thought we were going to dive to the bottom coming down the back sides of the first wave but we bobbed like a cork, even though the water came up to the gunnels. Very steep.

This current iteration is an 18ft'r and I've never sailed before so it'll be exciting to say the least.

More descriptors: There is a halyard and a sheet. There's an aluminum thwart that I will replace with a mahogany build-up, and there's a small, square aluminum step that bolts to a ready installed floor plate below the thwart. Rudder kit is complete. Leeboards are complete. There is a key hole fixture on the sole amidships. I assume that's for a block.

There are no stays or shrouds. But, there is a mystery fixture on the floor, up near the bow float bulkhead. I can't figure out what that is for - hence my query about Grumman stuff specifically. I suspect that the fixture is for some kind of solid forestay. All will be shown in the pics to come.

In the meantime, thanks.

John

John, you relate your Grumman experience so well. Same happened to me and buddy last summer while sailing 90 miles on beautiful lake Toro here in Quebec. We had wave comming to gunnels and very few time water came in, except for that rainy day!!! My 17 ft cedar planked canoe made it so well. 2 outriggers on each side, these of course add more stability (but are not essential for canoe sailing) for mainly sailing closed haul.

Mahoganny is nice but makes a hole in wallet, didn't you consider spanish cedar? It's beautiful, my canoe gunnels are made from this wood. Problem with gunnels is to find raw wood long enough, while making them in two parts is easier, but less ART. You'll need a planer, drill, good sander for that job, or a good friend who own the stuff and few beers!!!!

Yes I beleive that key hole is for mainsheet block.

Stays and shrouds are not always mandatory, according to sails area in square foot and type of rigging. I totalize approx 70 sf, two masts, and have no stays or shrouds, but I had to reenforce canoe bow, and reef (of course) when needed. My type of rigging is: 2 masts LUGGER SAILS

See some of my video clips In this forum at: SHOW US YOUR BOAT, under MY BEST VIDEO CLIPS. I am considering making a clip describing the boat.

I made blocks lately here is one them.

I have small supply of mahogany in my shop from other projects. I also have alot of 3/4" CDX plywood that laying around to make a proper pattern with. The aluminum thwart is flimsy in my opinion. And, the rubber grommet that goes thru the hole for the mast is all dried and cracked. With wood, I don't need a grommet.

Nice work on the blocks, by the way.

I really need some info on Grumman Specific sail kits. It just doesn't seem to exist.

Your sails: Your rig looks like a rather low standing outfit. With 70 ft over two sails, it must be nice to handle. My concern is that I think my sail is about the same footage, but all in one sail - and tall. And a flat bottomed boat.

...I'll start shallow.

John, try this link http://chicagolandcanoebase.com/
For accessories and Grumman parts.
There are a lot of items, from duck tape to canoe table and genuine Grumman parts like sails and rubber grommets.

Go for mahoganny. Aluminum is fast to install and to produce since it's cast.
Wood is always better for all reasons.
Needs some maintenance sometime.

If your sail is really 70 sf, I think it's big. Normally it's 40 sf for beginners, going to 50 and 60 for experienced... (in my opinion). Ed should have a word on this. Start sailing wearing a lifejacket and shallow.

My rig at 70 sf. is really nice in light winds, but even with outriggers, I still need to reef (2 reefs at mainsail, and 1 reef at mizzen) by stronger wind. Don't forget, even small, a sail may develop a lot of power.

Yours I think there is no reefing point to a lateen (usually).. Try to consider making your own rig, it's nice and fun, you'll be proud of it. I actually made mine, LUGGER SAIL RIG, (everything - spars -masts - sails - twarts, leeboards, rudder, exeption the canoe itself!!!) Everything is there in Todd's book, an investment that worth the price ( I say it cost nothing since you'll do the right thing without spoiling material and money).